Whenever I've spoken to Neo breeders in the past (going on 12+ years now), I've been told that Neos have "loose hips", and that many vets would not understand this and that most vets unfamiliar with the breed would diagnose the Neo as having " hip dysplasia". I've also read/been told that PennHip is preferred over OFA as a test method, because the PennHip would have more allowances for the "loose hip" issue in its ratings.
However.......
When I speak to breeders in other working breeds, I am told that "loose hips" IS THE SAME AS " hip dysplasia"...there is no difference.
So, now I'm confused. 1-Which is it? Are "loose hips" the same OR not the same as crippling disease " HD"? 2-Do ALL Neos have "loose hips"? If not, then what is the difference in the movement of a Neo with loose hips vs one who does NOT have loose hips (and what is this structure called then? tight hips??). 3-Do most reputable Neo show breeders TEST for hips? If so, what rating should a puppy buyer look for in the sire and dam? Excellents only? Good? Fair and above? what? 4-If a Neo does have "loose hips", does this 100% mean that the dog will become crippled, later in life??
Sorry if I got any of the above incorrect, but it's a subject that seems to have MANY differing opinions/answers. :/
Opinions are like you know what- everyone has one. In having loose hips, there is a pre-disposition for the dog to become dysplastic.
The abnormality of the hip bone into socket wears at the joint thus causing HD.
No, most neo breeders don't do OFA or PennHipp. More should. Some vets now say that genetics contributes roughly 25%. Environment around 75%. Environment being play, food, ect.
The jury is still out as to which sides are right. _________________________ Nikki Agrippina Mastino
Thanks Nikki I was trying to find an email from Nancy which said the same thing. Results of H & E taken around 18 months I was told is 25% Genetic and 75% food and enivroment. And there should be a breed average in your country to compare to. I think ours is 37.4 Many here are now taking x rays which can only be a good thing.
Opinions are like you know what- everyone has one. In having loose hips, there is a pre-disposition for the dog to become dysplastic.
The abnormality of the hip bone into socket wears at the joint thus causing HD.
No, most neo breeders don't do OFA or PennHipp. More should. Some vets now say that genetics contributes roughly 25%. Environment around 75%. Environment being play, food, ect.
The jury is still out as to which sides are right.
Need I say more also remember this breed is different from all the rest. It is a hard breed to own, breed, and show. Doc Allevamento Del Vincenzo Click me
HD is a problem in mastini ....BUT .....other things must taken into consideration also.....such as topline ...anglulation .....AND ...the muscling of the hindquaters ....IF these 3 are good the lack of quality in the hip joint will not affect the dog as much as it would if you had a roach back , straight hocks , cow hocks & thin weak muscles in the rear ...... Jaboa
I just posted a reply with more questions/comments..... but, it's NOT showing up here. ?? Anyway, I'll try to remember everything in my lost reply. lol
Nikki, Lynnicks, and Jaboa: THANKS for your replies.
Nikki, Thanks for the clarification re "loose hips" vs " HD", and how loose hips can "predispose" a dog to becoming "dysplastic". That explanation helps me immensely. However, I still do NOT understand if "loose hips" are a breed characteristic in ALL Neos? OR, is it that loose hips occurs only in a % of Neos, and therefore is a trait which can, and should, be bred out of the breed? Which is it?
Joboa, Thanks for your explanation re other important factors to look for, which can impact movement. I am still unclear as to how loose hips vs NON loose hips effects the gait of a Neo. What would be the difference in loose hips vs tight hips, if all the other factors you mentioned where equal (strong hindquarters, good topline, good angulation)? Can you clarify for me. Thanks!
Anthony and Linda? I'm confused as to how your remarks help answer my thread's question: loose hips VS hip dysplasia. ?? Can you clarify that for me?
Btw, just about every breed owner/breeder I've encountered over the past 20+ years, has also referred to their specific " breed of dog" as being "different", "hard to own", "hard to show", "hard to understand", "unique", "NOT for everyone", "special", and so on. Again, I don't see how those comments help to further this health related discussion thread of mine. If I'm incorrect, please explain. The purpose of this thread is/was to further my understanding of hip dysplasia, and how it relates to "loose hips" -- which is a term I have heard over and over again in relation to the Neopolitan Mastiff. If breeders want puppy buyers who have "done their homework", then I would think that Neo breeders would want to actively participate in this thread by giving concrete educationally-based answers, as have Nikki, Joboa, and Lynnicks. I am sure this thread can prove beneficial to many newbies to the breed. The more Neo pre-owners who can make educated puppy buying decisions, the LESS Neos that will end up in Rescue. No? And the healthier the dogs, the less who will end up being put down due to crippling diseases ...and the less heartache felt by dog owners. That is why the replies to this thread should keep OT, imho.
Well I take your reply as a stab at me so in turn this one is free I will now clarify for your. Nikki summed it up. Well I didn't want to beat a dead horse dead but here we go. Linda and I are just Crazy!!! HD is caused by the abnormal growth of the hip bone to the socket. The Acetabulum becomes Shallow this conduction is caused by genetics ( HD dog + HD dog= HD pups) and environment plays a role as well. Once the hip becomes shallow In turn the hip bone will "float" and soft tissue is damaged. I do believe that you can make good hips bad. So playing with pup letting pup run and jump all around and play with other dogs is not a good idea remember. At 2 years of age the Mastino structure has grown. That is why people say "why X-ray now? Wait when the dog turns 2 then X-ray" Now you can let them play run and what not. Just because the dog is going to be a 150lbs dog + doesn't mean it can play all freaking day. Mastino are very fragile at a young age. The dog is growing so fast that his/her tendons are having a hard time keeping the dog together. I could go on but here is my 50 cents hey get rich are die trying!!!
Did I answer your question correctly? Thanks again and have a good day and take care
DOC!
[ Edited Mon Jul 21 2008, 02:17PM ] Doc Allevamento Del Vincenzo Click me
oh I'd never "stab" anyone. *angel here* I just want to learn as much as I can about loose hips, HD, and how they relate to the Neo. Thanks for your response! Now that response does help further the HD health discussion here. Thank you! And yes, I have heard from others that there are outside factors (nutrition, injury, etc) which can cause HD.
Question: I'm still wanting an answer about whether or not "loose hips" is something NORMAL in the genetic structure of ALL Neos, or not.
Or, are "loose hips" something that only occurs genetically in some Neos.....meaning it is NOT a characteristic which is purposely bred into the breed.
Does "loose hips" mean the same thing as "sub-luxation"? or?
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